maintaining atomicity

Hello Friends,
Iam new to this sql server arena. I have implemented a procedure which does a series of insert and update statements and all of this statements must be implemented all at once or none. But if I got error in some statements , the rest of the statements are been executed. Please suggest me a way or code snippet to achieve atomicity in a sqlserver procedure.

regards,
Ch.Praveen Kumar.Use transactions:

begin tran

insert ...

if @.@.error<>0 begin
rollback tran
RAISERROR ...
return
end

update ...

if @.@.error<>0 begin
rollback tran
RAISERROR ...
return
end

commit tran|||Thank You For Your Reply. I Will Implement It.|||Hi,
I got a small doubt here. Whenever an error encounters, how to display the sqlserver error message rather than displaying our custom message with raiseerror. Is there any way to get the error message from sql server if an error encounters such as foriegn key violation. (invalid references to pk in mastertable)|||The problem that I see is that errors come back to the client application in a "stream", much like TDS or STDOUT provide. Transact-SQL sees the most recent error, the client sees every error. Unfortunately, the formatted error message (including things like object names) is only passed to the client, I don't think that Transact-SQL can even access it (although ADO can).

-PatP

Mail syntax interpreted by sp_processmail

Hello,
I desperately search for example of mail that can be send to an SQL2000 (SQLMAIL) and executed by the sp_processmail procedure.
I really don’t know how a mail intended to be executed be sp_processmail looks like?
Has someone any example?
Thanks
Eric K
Eric,
to get this going is quite straightforward - log onto the SQL Server box
with the same domain user as the SQL Server service. Set up an exchange
profile and set SQL Server to use this profile. From another box, using
another mail profile, send an email to this mailbox with a select statement
in it :
select * from northwind.dbo.region
Back on the SQL box, run sp_processmail.
BOL can explain the intricacies of the sp_processmail syntax, but this
should get you up and going.
HTH,
Paul Ibison
|||Thank for your answer Paul, I finally made this work. In fact I was stuck on a outlook 2000 problem with the password not retained for the access of the POP account: http://support.microsoft.com/default...b;en-us;259416
By
Erick

Mail syntax interpreted by sp_processmail

Hello
I desperately search for example of mail that can be send to an SQL2000 (SQLMAIL) and executed by the sp_processmail procedure
I really donâ't know how a mail intended to be executed be sp_processmail looks like
Has someone any example
Thank
EricEric,
to get this going is quite straightforward - log onto the SQL Server box
with the same domain user as the SQL Server service. Set up an exchange
profile and set SQL Server to use this profile. From another box, using
another mail profile, send an email to this mailbox with a select statement
in it :
select * from northwind.dbo.region
Back on the SQL box, run sp_processmail.
BOL can explain the intricacies of the sp_processmail syntax, but this
should get you up and going.
HTH,
Paul Ibison|||Thank for your answer Paul, I finally made this work. In fact I was stuck on a outlook 2000 problem with the password not retained for the access of the POP account: http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;25941
B
Eric

mail stored procedure- message -2147220975

i'm using a stored procedure that sends mail using the OA extended
procedures. it works fine on a number of servers.
Using Query analyzer, when executed the above message number shows up on the
messages tab. What's this? I've verified the stored procedure compiled and
the syntax check passes.
Using "xp_sendmail"
"Microsoft? SQL Server? provides a set of extended stored procedures that allow SQL Server to operate as a workgroup post office for a MAPI-enabled e-mail system."
Excuse me if this is not necessary, but have you tested the mail agent in SQL Server (SQL Mail) to determine if it is configured correctly and can send mail?
Another option is to cut and paste the sendmail in the stored procedure to find out if it for any syntac errors.
I use xp_sendmail in several stored procedures to alert me if a job fails and for other reasons. I haven't encountered this particular error message, but maybe my suggestions will help?
Jon
Message posted via http://www.sqlmonster.com

mail stored procedure- message -2147220975

i'm using a stored procedure that sends mail using the OA extended
procedures. it works fine on a number of servers.
Using Query analyzer, when executed the above message number shows up on the
messages tab. What's this? I've verified the stored procedure compiled and
the syntax check passes.Using "xp_sendmail"
"Microsoft? SQL Server? provides a set of extended stored procedures that al
low SQL Server to operate as a workgroup post office for a MAPI-enabled e-ma
il system."
Excuse me if this is not necessary, but have you tested the mail agent in SQ
L Server (SQL Mail) to determine if it is configured correctly and can send
mail?
Another option is to cut and paste the sendmail in the stored procedure to f
ind out if it for any syntac errors.
I use xp_sendmail in several stored procedures to alert me if a job fails an
d for other reasons. I haven't encountered this particular error message, b
ut maybe my suggestions will help?
Jon
Message posted via http://www.droptable.com

mail stored procedure- message -2147220975

i'm using a stored procedure that sends mail using the OA extended
procedures. it works fine on a number of servers.
Using Query analyzer, when executed the above message number shows up on the
messages tab. What's this? I've verified the stored procedure compiled and
the syntax check passes.Using "xp_sendmail"
"Microsoft? SQL Server? provides a set of extended stored procedures that allow SQL Server to operate as a workgroup post office for a MAPI-enabled e-mail system."
Excuse me if this is not necessary, but have you tested the mail agent in SQL Server (SQL Mail) to determine if it is configured correctly and can send mail?
Another option is to cut and paste the sendmail in the stored procedure to find out if it for any syntac errors.
I use xp_sendmail in several stored procedures to alert me if a job fails and for other reasons. I haven't encountered this particular error message, but maybe my suggestions will help?
Jon
--
Message posted via http://www.sqlmonster.com

Mail Profile sql 2005 : How to retry until successfully sent?

Hi
I recently had a big problem with an important job, after sending an email
using the msdb..sp_send_dbmail stored procedure the job succeeded!
BUT
the emails never went out! because the email server was problematic at
roughly the same time. This is the error that was logged in the sql 2005
email job log.:
No connection could be made because the target machine avtively refused it.
mail server failure ... bla bla bla
When i reran the job a couple of hours later the mails went out because the
mail server was up and running.
My question - is there not a way to tell the mail profile to retry sending
the email a couple of times with say 1 minute intervals between retries -
same as in a sql 2005 job'
thanks
IanHi
As I understood, you may want to PING the server
to check whether or not the server is running up and if it succeded then
send the email
Some ideas, check it out
SET NOCOUNT ON
CREATE TABLE #t_ip (ip varchar(255))
DECLARE @.PingSql varchar(1000)
SELECT @.PingSql = 'ping ' + '00.00.0.0'
INSERT INTO #t_ip EXEC master.dbo.xp_cmdshell @.PingSql
IF EXISTS (SELECT TOP 2 * FROM #t_ip WHERE IP = 'Request timed out' )
BEGIN
DROP TABLE #t_ip
RETURN
END
DROP TABLE #t_ip
"I.W Coetzer" <I.W Coetzer@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:27F55D35-F6A1-437D-888D-B897A30DA9A0@.microsoft.com...
> Hi
> I recently had a big problem with an important job, after sending an email
> using the msdb..sp_send_dbmail stored procedure the job succeeded!
> BUT
> the emails never went out! because the email server was problematic at
> roughly the same time. This is the error that was logged in the sql 2005
> email job log.:
> No connection could be made because the target machine avtively refused
> it.
> mail server failure ... bla bla bla
> When i reran the job a couple of hours later the mails went out because
> the
> mail server was up and running.
> My question - is there not a way to tell the mail profile to retry sending
> the email a couple of times with say 1 minute intervals between retries -
> same as in a sql 2005 job'
> thanks
> Ian|||You can set the number of retires and the retry delay
interval at the server configuration level. In T-SQL, you
can use sysmail_configure_sp. If you are using the Database
Mail Configuration wizard in Management Studio, select the
option to View or Change System Parameters.
-Sue
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 04:14:04 -0700, I.W Coetzer <I.W
Coetzer@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>Hi
>I recently had a big problem with an important job, after sending an email
>using the msdb..sp_send_dbmail stored procedure the job succeeded!
>BUT
>the emails never went out! because the email server was problematic at
>roughly the same time. This is the error that was logged in the sql 2005
>email job log.:
>No connection could be made because the target machine avtively refused it.
>mail server failure ... bla bla bla
>When i reran the job a couple of hours later the mails went out because the
>mail server was up and running.
>My question - is there not a way to tell the mail profile to retry sending
>the email a couple of times with say 1 minute intervals between retries -
>same as in a sql 2005 job'
>thanks
>Ian|||Hi
This would not have solved the problem because the server was up and running
- but the mail service was hanging / not working i think.
bye
"Uri Dimant" wrote:
> Hi
> As I understood, you may want to PING the server
> to check whether or not the server is running up and if it succeded then
> send the email
> Some ideas, check it out
> SET NOCOUNT ON
> CREATE TABLE #t_ip (ip varchar(255))
> DECLARE @.PingSql varchar(1000)
> SELECT @.PingSql = 'ping ' + '00.00.0.0'
> INSERT INTO #t_ip EXEC master.dbo.xp_cmdshell @.PingSql
> IF EXISTS (SELECT TOP 2 * FROM #t_ip WHERE IP = 'Request timed out' )
> BEGIN
> DROP TABLE #t_ip
> RETURN
> END
> DROP TABLE #t_ip
>
>
> "I.W Coetzer" <I.W Coetzer@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:27F55D35-F6A1-437D-888D-B897A30DA9A0@.microsoft.com...
> > Hi
> >
> > I recently had a big problem with an important job, after sending an email
> > using the msdb..sp_send_dbmail stored procedure the job succeeded!
> > BUT
> > the emails never went out! because the email server was problematic at
> > roughly the same time. This is the error that was logged in the sql 2005
> > email job log.:
> > No connection could be made because the target machine avtively refused
> > it.
> > mail server failure ... bla bla bla
> >
> > When i reran the job a couple of hours later the mails went out because
> > the
> > mail server was up and running.
> >
> > My question - is there not a way to tell the mail profile to retry sending
> > the email a couple of times with say 1 minute intervals between retries -
> > same as in a sql 2005 job'
> >
> > thanks
> >
> > Ian
>
>|||brilliant! thank you very much - now to wait and see what happens tomorrow
morning ...
bye
"Sue Hoegemeier" wrote:
> You can set the number of retires and the retry delay
> interval at the server configuration level. In T-SQL, you
> can use sysmail_configure_sp. If you are using the Database
> Mail Configuration wizard in Management Studio, select the
> option to View or Change System Parameters.
> -Sue
> On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 04:14:04 -0700, I.W Coetzer <I.W
> Coetzer@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
> >Hi
> >
> >I recently had a big problem with an important job, after sending an email
> >using the msdb..sp_send_dbmail stored procedure the job succeeded!
> >BUT
> >the emails never went out! because the email server was problematic at
> >roughly the same time. This is the error that was logged in the sql 2005
> >email job log.:
> >No connection could be made because the target machine avtively refused it.
> >mail server failure ... bla bla bla
> >
> >When i reran the job a couple of hours later the mails went out because the
> >mail server was up and running.
> >
> >My question - is there not a way to tell the mail profile to retry sending
> >the email a couple of times with say 1 minute intervals between retries -
> >same as in a sql 2005 job'
> >
> >thanks
> >
> >Ian
>

Mail Profile sql 2005 : How to retry until successfully sent?

Hi
I recently had a big problem with an important job, after sending an email
using the msdb..sp_send_dbmail stored procedure the job succeeded!
BUT
the emails never went out! because the email server was problematic at
roughly the same time. This is the error that was logged in the sql 2005
email job log.:
No connection could be made because the target machine avtively refused it.
mail server failure ... bla bla bla
When i reran the job a couple of hours later the mails went out because the
mail server was up and running.
My question - is there not a way to tell the mail profile to retry sending
the email a couple of times with say 1 minute intervals between retries -
same as in a sql 2005 job?
thanks
Ian
Hi
As I understood, you may want to PING the server
to check whether or not the server is running up and if it succeded then
send the email
Some ideas, check it out
SET NOCOUNT ON
CREATE TABLE #t_ip (ip varchar(255))
DECLARE @.PingSql varchar(1000)
SELECT @.PingSql = 'ping ' + '00.00.0.0'
INSERT INTO #t_ip EXEC master.dbo.xp_cmdshell @.PingSql
IF EXISTS (SELECT TOP 2 * FROM #t_ip WHERE IP = 'Request timed out' )
BEGIN
DROP TABLE #t_ip
RETURN
END
DROP TABLE #t_ip
"I.W Coetzer" <I.W Coetzer@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:27F55D35-F6A1-437D-888D-B897A30DA9A0@.microsoft.com...
> Hi
> I recently had a big problem with an important job, after sending an email
> using the msdb..sp_send_dbmail stored procedure the job succeeded!
> BUT
> the emails never went out! because the email server was problematic at
> roughly the same time. This is the error that was logged in the sql 2005
> email job log.:
> No connection could be made because the target machine avtively refused
> it.
> mail server failure ... bla bla bla
> When i reran the job a couple of hours later the mails went out because
> the
> mail server was up and running.
> My question - is there not a way to tell the mail profile to retry sending
> the email a couple of times with say 1 minute intervals between retries -
> same as in a sql 2005 job?
> thanks
> Ian
|||You can set the number of retires and the retry delay
interval at the server configuration level. In T-SQL, you
can use sysmail_configure_sp. If you are using the Database
Mail Configuration wizard in Management Studio, select the
option to View or Change System Parameters.
-Sue
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 04:14:04 -0700, I.W Coetzer <I.W
Coetzer@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>Hi
>I recently had a big problem with an important job, after sending an email
>using the msdb..sp_send_dbmail stored procedure the job succeeded!
>BUT
>the emails never went out! because the email server was problematic at
>roughly the same time. This is the error that was logged in the sql 2005
>email job log.:
>No connection could be made because the target machine avtively refused it.
>mail server failure ... bla bla bla
>When i reran the job a couple of hours later the mails went out because the
>mail server was up and running.
>My question - is there not a way to tell the mail profile to retry sending
>the email a couple of times with say 1 minute intervals between retries -
>same as in a sql 2005 job?
>thanks
>Ian
|||Hi
This would not have solved the problem because the server was up and running
- but the mail service was hanging / not working i think.
bye
"Uri Dimant" wrote:

> Hi
> As I understood, you may want to PING the server
> to check whether or not the server is running up and if it succeded then
> send the email
> Some ideas, check it out
> SET NOCOUNT ON
> CREATE TABLE #t_ip (ip varchar(255))
> DECLARE @.PingSql varchar(1000)
> SELECT @.PingSql = 'ping ' + '00.00.0.0'
> INSERT INTO #t_ip EXEC master.dbo.xp_cmdshell @.PingSql
> IF EXISTS (SELECT TOP 2 * FROM #t_ip WHERE IP = 'Request timed out' )
> BEGIN
> DROP TABLE #t_ip
> RETURN
> END
> DROP TABLE #t_ip
>
>
> "I.W Coetzer" <I.W Coetzer@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:27F55D35-F6A1-437D-888D-B897A30DA9A0@.microsoft.com...
>
>
|||brilliant! thank you very much - now to wait and see what happens tomorrow
morning ...
bye
"Sue Hoegemeier" wrote:

> You can set the number of retires and the retry delay
> interval at the server configuration level. In T-SQL, you
> can use sysmail_configure_sp. If you are using the Database
> Mail Configuration wizard in Management Studio, select the
> option to View or Change System Parameters.
> -Sue
> On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 04:14:04 -0700, I.W Coetzer <I.W
> Coetzer@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>
>

Mail Profile sql 2005 : How to retry until successfully sent?

Hi
I recently had a big problem with an important job, after sending an email
using the msdb..sp_send_dbmail stored procedure the job succeeded!
BUT
the emails never went out! because the email server was problematic at
roughly the same time. This is the error that was logged in the sql 2005
email job log.:
No connection could be made because the target machine avtively refused it.
mail server failure ... bla bla bla
When i reran the job a couple of hours later the mails went out because the
mail server was up and running.
My question - is there not a way to tell the mail profile to retry sending
the email a couple of times with say 1 minute intervals between retries -
same as in a sql 2005 job'
thanks
IanHi
As I understood, you may want to PING the server
to check whether or not the server is running up and if it succeded then
send the email
Some ideas, check it out
SET NOCOUNT ON
CREATE TABLE #t_ip (ip varchar(255))
DECLARE @.PingSql varchar(1000)
SELECT @.PingSql = 'ping ' + '00.00.0.0'
INSERT INTO #t_ip EXEC master.dbo.xp_cmdshell @.PingSql
IF EXISTS (SELECT TOP 2 * FROM #t_ip WHERE IP = 'Request timed out' )
BEGIN
DROP TABLE #t_ip
RETURN
END
DROP TABLE #t_ip
"I.W Coetzer" <I.W Coetzer@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:27F55D35-F6A1-437D-888D-B897A30DA9A0@.microsoft.com...
> Hi
> I recently had a big problem with an important job, after sending an email
> using the msdb..sp_send_dbmail stored procedure the job succeeded!
> BUT
> the emails never went out! because the email server was problematic at
> roughly the same time. This is the error that was logged in the sql 2005
> email job log.:
> No connection could be made because the target machine avtively refused
> it.
> mail server failure ... bla bla bla
> When i reran the job a couple of hours later the mails went out because
> the
> mail server was up and running.
> My question - is there not a way to tell the mail profile to retry sending
> the email a couple of times with say 1 minute intervals between retries -
> same as in a sql 2005 job'
> thanks
> Ian|||You can set the number of retires and the retry delay
interval at the server configuration level. In T-SQL, you
can use sysmail_configure_sp. If you are using the Database
Mail Configuration wizard in Management Studio, select the
option to View or Change System Parameters.
-Sue
On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 04:14:04 -0700, I.W Coetzer <I.W
Coetzer@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:

>Hi
>I recently had a big problem with an important job, after sending an email
>using the msdb..sp_send_dbmail stored procedure the job succeeded!
>BUT
>the emails never went out! because the email server was problematic at
>roughly the same time. This is the error that was logged in the sql 2005
>email job log.:
>No connection could be made because the target machine avtively refused it.
>mail server failure ... bla bla bla
>When i reran the job a couple of hours later the mails went out because the
>mail server was up and running.
>My question - is there not a way to tell the mail profile to retry sending
>the email a couple of times with say 1 minute intervals between retries -
>same as in a sql 2005 job'
>thanks
>Ian|||Hi
This would not have solved the problem because the server was up and running
- but the mail service was hanging / not working i think.
bye
"Uri Dimant" wrote:

> Hi
> As I understood, you may want to PING the server
> to check whether or not the server is running up and if it succeded the
n
> send the email
> Some ideas, check it out
> SET NOCOUNT ON
> CREATE TABLE #t_ip (ip varchar(255))
> DECLARE @.PingSql varchar(1000)
> SELECT @.PingSql = 'ping ' + '00.00.0.0'
> INSERT INTO #t_ip EXEC master.dbo.xp_cmdshell @.PingSql
> IF EXISTS (SELECT TOP 2 * FROM #t_ip WHERE IP = 'Request timed out' )
> BEGIN
> DROP TABLE #t_ip
> RETURN
> END
> DROP TABLE #t_ip
>
>
> "I.W Coetzer" <I.W Coetzer@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote in message
> news:27F55D35-F6A1-437D-888D-B897A30DA9A0@.microsoft.com...
>
>|||brilliant! thank you very much - now to wait and see what happens tomorrow
morning ...
bye
"Sue Hoegemeier" wrote:

> You can set the number of retires and the retry delay
> interval at the server configuration level. In T-SQL, you
> can use sysmail_configure_sp. If you are using the Database
> Mail Configuration wizard in Management Studio, select the
> option to View or Change System Parameters.
> -Sue
> On Mon, 16 Apr 2007 04:14:04 -0700, I.W Coetzer <I.W
> Coetzer@.discussions.microsoft.com> wrote:
>
>

Mail attachment with CDOSYS

Hi,
I am using the following stored procedure to send a mail with attachment. But the mail is sent without the attachment. Can anyone help me?

CREATE PROCEDURE DBO.sp_Send_Mail_test(
@.p_From as nvarchar(50),
@.p_To as nvarchar(50),
@.p_Subject as nvarchar(255),
@.p_Body as varchar(1000),
@.p_CC as text = null,
@.p_BCC as text = null,
@.p_Attachment varchar(500)=null
)
AS
Declare @.Message int
Declare @.hr int
Declare @.source varchar(255)
Declare @.description varchar(500)

EXEC @.hr = sp_OACreate 'CDO.Message', @.Message OUT

EXEC @.hr = sp_OASetProperty @.Message, 'From',@.p_From

EXEC @.hr = sp_OASetProperty @.Message, 'To', @.p_To

EXEC @.hr = sp_OASetProperty @.Message, 'Subject', @.p_Subject

EXEC @.hr = sp_OASetProperty @.Message, 'TextBody', @.p_Body

EXEC @.hr = sp_OAMethod @.Message, 'CDO.Message.Attachment.Update', Default, @.p_Attachment

If @.p_CC is not null
BEGIN
EXEC @.hr = sp_OASetProperty @.Message, 'CC',@.p_CC
END

If @.p_BCC is not null
BEGIN
EXEC @.hr = sp_OASetProperty @.Message, 'BCC',@.p_BCC
END

EXEC @.hr = sp_OAMethod @.Message, 'Send', NULL

EXEC @.hr = sp_OAGetErrorInfo NULL, @.source OUT, @.description out

EXEC @.hr = sp_OADestroy @.Message
IF @.hr <> 0
BEGIN
SELECT hr=convert(varbinary(4),@.hr), Source=@.source, Description=@.description
RETURN
END

Regards,
Bharathram GMy first guess would be that you didn't use a UNC for the file name.

I'm moving this post to the SQL Server Forum for you... I think that you'll get a lot better responses there than you will in a "pure SQL" forum.

-PatP

Macro

Has anyone ever tried to run a stored procedure through a macro before?? And If so do you get a message that says that the stored procedure exectuted successfully but a macro Halt macro message that says "Action Failed"?? Now the stored procedure executes just fine its just that the macro itself is having some trouble. Can anyone help me?? pleaseFrom where you're trying to execute, I've never come across in SQL server.|||Probably way off here but is it possible a return value that is expected but not given?|||This is the stored procedure I am using

CREATE PROCEDURE [InsertTerms]
AS
INSERT INTO [GamingCommissiondb].[dbo].[TERMINATION] ( [TM #],
[FirstName],
[LastName],
[SocialSecurityNumber],
[DateHired],
[Status],
[Title],
[DepartmentName])

SELECT a.TM#, a.FirstName, a.LASTNAME, a.SSN#, a.HIREDATE, a.STATUS, a.JOBTITLE, a.DEPT#
FROM EmployeeGamingLicense AS a
WHERE a.STATUS = 'TERMINATED'
IF @.@.Error <> '0'
RETURN
GO

this is the macro that executes it|||Why not just use a pass thu?|||IF @.@.Error <> '0'
RETURN
GO

In your case, 0 is always returned. Does the data get inserted? Does the macro always indicate "Action Failed"?|||Yes the data does get inserted, and yes the macro is always indicates failed action|||Access xp has no problems with this, access 2000 apparently has a problem|||Do the sprocs get listed in your macro drop down list?

I betcha it's a connectivity thing...

Macro

Our IT department says to me all a stored procedure is, is a Macro. This is what Our network tech says to me. There are days I just want slap these people. This is the same one that made the Flat File comment, I think databases are very important and can be very complex I get annoyed when they IT people make them seems as if they are of no importance at all.

Venting again sorryHey Pat, it's your turf! Tell'em!|||An operating system is really just a big assembler macro to support the important stuff that users really need (applications). When you are dealing with "experts" that make those kind of comments and expect you to take them seriously, it is a sure sign of trouble.

While you can use a stored procedure much like a macro, you can use a C++ compiler the same way. That doesn't really say squat about the abilities of either the stored procedure or the compiler, just about how they are being used at the moment.

You just need to give the net-weenies the credit they are due. If they earn your respect, that's a good thing. If not, adapt and move on.

-PatP|||Thank you Pat, your absolutely right. Its not even worth the stress, I think what annoyed me the most is how he made it seem as though it was a demeaning and minuscucle task. These people make comments like this on a daily basis, they think DBA's are a waste of time and money. Whatever|||I get the feeling of deja vu all over again. We've had this discussion before, haven't we?

The hard-core net-weenie likes to think that they are masters of all that they survey. They like it even better when they can convince others that they are masters of all that they survey. It takes a lot to bring them back to the real world, and some of them won't survive the trip.

They've lost sight of the fact that we geeks simply make it possible for the average joe users to get their jobs done. True that a real geek can make it possible for a thousand users to do the work of 10,000 users without the geek, but they are still just a geek when you get right down to it.

A good geek that knows their stuff, and works hard to improve life for everyone around them is incredibly valuable. An average geek that does a respectable job is still quite valuable. A PITA is a PITA, regardless of their GQ (Geek Quotient).

Keep in mind that a geek almost never provides a deliverable of any kind to the client, so by themselves a geek is worth nothing at all to the company. The only real value that a geek has is what they can do to make life easier/faster/more productive for the average joes. A geek that stands in the way of the average joe (unless they are enforcing legal or company policy limits), is probably a liability instead of an asset.

-PatP|||thank you Pat that valuable information for someone like me who is new to the World of the "Geeks". Well fine I'll just adapt and move on. Even though I'm just a Mini Geek and soon to be a Major Geek, I'm Dam Proud of it. Of course I'm one of those females who pushes the cute guys away, in order to get a better view of Programming Geeks.

LOL :)|||What Dam are you proud of? Or, what dam describes the level of pride you feel.

I'm a confused geek.|||Now Derrick! I suspect the lady meant the other flavor of damn, and not only that, but you darn well know it! ;)

-PatP|||Oh why do I even bother...I'm dam proud to be a GEEK...lol

Oh Nevermind|||Sort of like the first time I heard my dentist talking about a "rubber dam"... Heck, I always KNEW those things were dams!

-PatP